why did bill guthridge retire
But there was no questioning the depth of their relationship. We ended up beating em easily, and I thanked him later for it, Hanners says. But I know thats something that bothered him to his death, Ndiaye says. And as the confetti fell on UNCs first title A.D. After Dean Guthridge burst into tears alongside his former players. But if Williams had said no, as he did two years later, would Ford have been tapped for the job then? He, like Coach Smith, was more of a mentor and father figure than anything else. A source close to the basketball program, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Thursday that Guthridge recently decided he did not have the energy to continue coaching the Tar Heels. Because before we can consider what might have been, we have to understand why everything played out as it did. He came up with the idea that Dean Smith, having . The Tar Heels then went 24-10 in 1998-99 but were upset by Weber State in the first round of the NCAA tournament. WAKE FOREST: Former basketball standout Charlie Davis quit his job in the athletic department, reportedly for not being considered for advancement. Coach Smith had so many strengths and very few weaknesses, and the weaknesses that he did have Coach Guthridge tried to fill. The family told team spokesman Steve Kirschner that Guthridge died of heart failure and that the coach had lived with a heart condition the past seven years. He was 77 years old. He was a kind soul with a strong, competitive spirit. "Needless to say I'm tired of having meetings like this." Brendan Marks covers Duke and North Carolina basketball for The Athletic. That aspect of his character first surfaced in 1972, when the University of North Carolina basketball coach left Tar Heel fans bewildered by announcing that he wanted junior star forward Robert McAdoo to turn pro rather than return for the 1972-73 season. In Guthridge's final season, he went 18-13 -- at the time, the program's worst finish in decades -- but bounced back in the postseason to reach North Carolina's 15th Final Four before losing in the national semifinals to Florida. He stayed (rather than leave for a head coaching job at another university) because he was enjoying what he was doing and why leave something you know is good for the unknown. But it was as if the whole contraption was tilted, resting at an incline so that the sand would never get to the bottom. We didnt play well for just five minutes, and that decided the game.. But he was also one of the most passionate members of the Carolina basketball family in the last 50 years, and was completely devoted to the Tar Heels, to Smith, and to the University of North Carolina. He was North Carolina basketball, the constant as the new building was built in his honor and the banners in the rafters accumulated, the link from Scott to Ford to Jordan to Stackhouse. While a student at Kansas State, Guthridge played guard under head coach Fred "Tex" Winter, and helped the team advance to the 1958 Final Four. Guthridge took over when Smith retired after 36 seasons in October 1997. That not-wanting-to-step-on-toes thing? Had Smith made the logical move and coached on until his 70th birthday -- the route likely to be taken by Dukes Mike Krzyzewski (66) and Syracuses Jim Boeheim (68) -- he would have finished with at least 1,000 wins and possibly two more national titles. When Roy Williams declined the opportunity to be Carolinas head coach in 2000, he had to mend more hurt feelings with Guthridge than with Smith. Guthridge, who like Smith was a. He was no different from Coach Smith or Coach Guthridge. "If he told me to run through that wall to make me better, I'd hit that wall," former North Carolina player and well-traveled college coach Buzz Peterson told The Associated Press. North Carolina made 29 NCAA tournament appearances in Guthridge's 33 years on the staff and finished no worse than third in the Atlantic Coast Conference regular-season standings every year -- with 16 first-place finishes and 10 more in second. Panthers add Parks Frazier as passing game coordinator, Duke finishes 16-0 at home after 71-67 win over N.C. 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Hed have been two years into a rebuild at Notre Dame, and perhaps less reluctant to leave. Together, they taught us basketball is secondary. Guthridge also gave to the University away from basketball. The careers and lives of the two coaches from Kansas were solidly intertwined. From 1972 onward, he was Smith's top assistant. But part of me, at the end of the day, thinks Coach Williams was destined to end up back here. The Blue Sky Scholars Program gives scholarship support to middle-income parents and students from North Carolina. He spurned offers to interview for head coaching vacancies, preferring to remain out of the spotlight and continuing to team with Smith. Recharge your batteries, they told him. Why bring those up? Maybe Phil Ford wouldve been the head coach then, Ndiaye says. Which 16 teams should you buy or fade ahead of March Madness? And althoug he believes that scenario puts more emphasis on winning than it does on building relationships and teaching the things Guthridge and Smith both loved its not out of the question. Then Guthridges voice wavered as he began to apologize I feel like its my fault. One of the things that made (Smith) so special was his ability to be innovative so certainly, I think we would have had some other ways to attack in a game that we struggled, against Utah in the Final Four.. Ill just say this, says Dave Hanners, one of Smiths longtime assistants. #RIP, "It has been a trying time for the University of North Carolina basketball program over the past four months, and our thoughts and prayers are with them again today," Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski said in a statement. Which put Baddour on the search for a long-term replacement for the first time. Fast-forward to present day, and he has surpassed Smith in both national championships and wins. And that brings us full-circle, back to the original what-if: What if Dean Smith had finished out his contract, which ran through the end of the 2000-01 season? Guthridge became head coach after Smith retired in 1997 and coached the team for three seasons.UNC coach Roy Williams called Guthridge a key . North Carolina coach Bill Guthridge retired Friday after three years as Dean Smiths successor, a move that opens one of the most prestigious jobs in college sports. Guthridge was completely committed to Carolina basketball, and he wanted to make sure everyone else in the program felt the same way. The first is, if Guthridge hadnt wanted the job, would Williams have taken it? It was more a series of passing conversations, regular updates about the coachs state of mind. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. In 1976, he also served as an assistant coach to Smith as the United States won the gold medal in men's basketball at the Summer Olympics in Montreal. That possibility isnt one Baddour had previously considered. We offer our deepest condolences to the Guthridge family as they grieve the loss of a wonderful husband and father.. Smith is now 82 and with some health issues. Former University of North Carolina basketball coach Bill Guthridge, 77, died Tuesday from a heart condition. Current coach Roy Williams referenced Smith's death, which occurred on Feb. 7 of this year, when commenting onGuthridge, via Andrew Carter of theCharlotte Observer: Here's Roy. No, I couldnt even consider that, Smith said. All the scheduling calls, speeches for adoring donors, piles and piles of paperwork that accompanied seemingly everything he did. Theres no way you could dream, Hanners says, anyone would necessarily do better.. So I just feel like we got robbed.. I dont think he went in that summer thinking, Im not gonna be the basketball coach by fall, Baddour says. He took the team to the NCAA final Four twice and was named national coach of the year in 1998, before retiring in 2000.[1]. Dean Smiths hourglass, it seemed, had an endless amount of sand. That team still went 34-4, losing to Utah in the Final Four. in education in 1963. He was 77 years old, Former UNC basketball coach Bill Guthridge passes away at age 77, UNC School of Social Work becomes new home for CEAL@UNC, expand work to advance assisted living. Guthridge took over when Smith retired after 36 seasons in October 1997. He has saved many scholarships when he has suggested backing off certain players, and of course, has selected some great ones who matriculated at Chapel Hill., UNC coach Bill Guthridge gives instructions during a game in the 99-00 season. Matt Doherty, who played at UNC while Guthridge was an assistant and then became the school's head coach after Guthridge retired, sent along his condolences: Thank you Coach Gut for the many lessons you taught us at UNC. The team performs dazzling spins and flips at campus events and even competes against other universities and jump rope clubs from around the country. When Bill Guthridge retired as North Carolina's basketball coach in the summer of 2000, it set off a chain reaction that touched the lives of dozens of people in his profession. Guthridge had ample opportunities to leave Chapel Hill and become the head coach of his own program. On the day of Smiths retirement, The Washington Post reported Smith wants his other longtime assistant, former Tar Heels point guard Phil Ford, eventually to become the coach, a source said. Ford was arguably Smiths best player ever, and UNCs all-time leading scorer at the time. Guthridge took over when Smith retired after 36 seasons in October 1997. I think its time to turn it over to somebody else, he said at a campus news conference. He said to me, I have felt this way before, but in the early fall, Ive always gotten the energy back, and I expect that thats gonna happen, but I do want to alert you to the possibility that it might not. Whether or not deep down inside he thought that energy wouldnt come back, I dont know the answer to that. 33 yrs on UNC bench. Our hope and fervent desire is that the best basketball coach in America will continue to practice his craft at KU, he said Thursday night. The team fundamentally changed, that opportunity disappearing into the ether. He also was head golf coach for the Wildcats. "All I can say is I'm pursuing other opportunities," Davis said. We easily could have won the championship, man, Ndiaye says. One of his most tempestuous relationships had been with guard Shammond Williams, who even walked off the court at Virginia on one occasion. Bill Guthridge, who made his college basketball reputation as Dean Smith's trusted right-hand man then took Carolina to two Final Fours in three years as head coach after his mentor retired has died after a long illness. Guthridge said a few weeks ago he planned to stay another five or six years despite intense criticism from fans and alumni after the teams worst regular-season record in decades. I would have been as vigorous and go after that as hard as I could possibly go.. CHAPEL HILL, N.C. -- Former University of North Carolina head coach Bill Guthridge, who also served 30 years as an assistant to Dean Smith, died Tuesday night at age 77, university officials confirmed on Wednesday. Only in Chapel Hill would a two-time Final Four coach, an Atlantic Coast Conference champion, and a consensus National Coach of the Year award winner be best known as an assistant. Carolina Jump Rope is making their fellow Tar Heel rethink what it means to jump rope. But Baddour explained to the chancellor that because of Williams respect for Guthridge, hed never have taken the job over his friend. Of course, its not like UNC had a bad season in Guthridges first year. Baddour says he never got that far down the line because of Guthridges interest. He was a perfect sidekick for Coach Smith. CHAPEL HILL, N.C. ? And I said, I cant say to you with certainty what Bills gonna do, but this is how we have to approach it. Ndiaye even tried cracking the ice by joking that Guthridges years as head coach probably hadnt hurt his wallet. The fact that he felt like he failed us.. That includes two as a head coach at Carolina, 10 as a Tar Heel assistant coach and one each as a player and assistant coach at his alma mater, Kansas State. All the things he couldnt do during the daunting in-season months. "We'd always say there were so many time zones -- Eastern Standard Time, Central Standard Time -- but the most important was GST: Guthridge Standard Time," Peterson said. Now Guthridge, 77, is enduring a similarly cruel fate . 33 yrs on UNC bench. He couldnt generate enough energy to get through all of that., Some background: In the years leading up to his retirement specifically every spring after the conclusion of the NCAA Tournament Smith expressed a sense of exhaustion to the people around him. He directed UNC to the 1998 Atlantic Coast Conference Tournament championship and was named the ACC Coach of the Year. It was very, very much real and something Smith had to balance with the sentiment that maybe he had left too soon. He was a lifetime assistant coach for whom Dean did a solid. Penn State was a good situation, he said in an interview in 2010. His lack of recruiting is why they went 8-20 shortly thereafter. Guthridge was Smiths assistant for 30 years. I needed Bill to tell me, Dick, yes, I want to do this, Baddour says, and he was clear that he wanted to.. (An aside: if Doherty stays, does Mike Brey, succeeded him and still remains in South Bend, get that job, or is he elsewhere too?). Theyd had their disagreements, yes. Without question, every opportunity that I would have to hire Roy Williams. He was a part of 867 wins in 33 seasons at Carolina and 960 college coaching victories overall, including 93 wins on the staff at Kansas State. Did Bill Guthridge win national championship? After Coach Guthridges retirement in 2003, he and Coach Smith stayed in close contact, visiting each other frequently. The announcement came nearly two months after the 6-10 center led the Boston . However, Coach Guthridge served as the perfect replacement as head basketball coach when Coach Smith unexpectantly announced his retirement from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill in 1997. Perhaps, at last, somewhere in his mind, Coach Guthridge finally made the decision to retire from this physical life. The picture most Tar Heel fans will have of him is sitting slightly behind Dean Smith, perhaps leaning over to make a point to the head coach. [5], He died at his home on May 12, 2015, after an extended illness, alongside his family. I think its time I make this decision. Division regular season and conference tournament champion The ones he did have Coach Guthridge tried to fill. He always knew what he was doing.. Dean Smith unexpectedly retired as head basketball coach at North Carolina just two months before the start of the 199798 season, and Guthridge was immediately named his successor. So why leave?, His dry sense of humor was legendary among his players. In 1998, Guthridge inherited a team that had been to the 1997 Final Four the previous year under Smith. You come up one year, and that year you win the national championship. Guthridge spent 31 seasons as an assistant to Smith, the winningest coach in college basketball history. "Because I knew Coach Guthridge had the best interest for you and wanted to see you succeed.". Smith, after all, kept an office in the arena for several years after retirement. However, it was Coach Guthridges incurable heart condition that led to his development of vascular dementia, and with its progression, his placement for the last several years in a Chapel Hill assisted living facility. Guthridge, who like Smith was a Kansas native, spent 30 years as an assistant coach and had ample opportunities to leave Chapel Hill and become the coach of his own program. He also coached 66 players who were selected in the NBA and/or ABA drafts. Guthridge went 80-28 from 1997 to 2000 before retiring in June 2000. Bill Guthridge, who led North Carolina to two Final Four appearances in his three seasons as basketball coach of the Tar Heels, will announce his retirement today, the Associated Press reported. At Smith's retirement. Coaches, both within the program and across the country, still came calling to Chapel Hill every summer to pick his brains about Xs and Os. Other opportunities had arisen over time, and yet Guthridge always remained as Smiths assistant. 2023 Capitol Broadcasting Company, Inc. 08/08: Dean Smith to receive Presidential Medal of Freedom, 06/29/2011: Smith, Coach K, Yow honored by Naismith, 10/21/2008: UNC's Smith to receive Lapchick Character Award, 02/18/2008: ACC To Honor Dean Smith, Lorenzo Charles, other Greats, Bio Jobs Hub: Find a great-paying job that changes lives, even yours. And as an assistant for Smith for nine seasons, he had both a championship pedigree and a deep understanding of how the program operated. Only different alternate realities. And with Guthridge having gotten his shot, there would have been no issues of whose turn it was. With a wealth of returning talent, Guthridge instituted a "six starters" system, whereby the team's top six players, Antawn Jamison, Vince Carter, Ed Cota, Shammond Williams, Ademola Okulaja, and Makhtar N'Diaye rotated positions in the starting five. [6], National champion For 30 of his 33 years at Carolina, Guthridge was the behind-the-scenes guy scouting opponents, making sure players got to class on time, disciplining players, getting the players on the bus or airplane and into the hotel, working with office staff on the smallest of details, and recruiting the latter, unlike many coaches, he said he enjoyed immensely. At that point, Baddour turned to Matt Doherty, who had been the coach at Notre Dame for just one season. It didnt bother me that I was a lousy coach, and when we started winning I was a better coach. Guthridge took over when Smith retired after 36 seasons in October 1997. Division regular season champion The University is currently operating under normal conditions. If you played for him you loved him; working with him was a joy. His calm demeanorhe could sometimes be found sitting in the stands an hour before road games eating popcorn or a hot dogmasked a passionate love for the Tar Heels. He was a friend. Suggestion to Return DismissedWhen Guthridge retired after leading his third team to another Final Four, I interviewed Smith about the amazingly long and successful partnership the two coaches -- Smith a Kansas grad and Guthridge from Kansas State -- had enjoyed. Its not what gets remembered for the rest of your life, at least not at a place like North Carolina. He was 77. He is one of five people to have appeared in the Final Four as both a player and coach. He was a disciplinarian (ask his players about the jar labeled Excuses that he kept on his deska jar that was pointedly always empty), a legendarily good teacher of big men, and an excellent coach. Former UNC Coach Bill Guthridge passed away last night at age 77 w/ family at his side. He's a native of Raleigh, N.C. Guthridge led UNC to the Final Four in his first season, but the team fell short of a championship. But 1:57 was 1:57. He was like Coach Guthridge in that both of them loved and bled Carolina blue so much that they never wanted to leave the program.. In fact, Guthridge has been involved with 13 teams which have reached the Final Four-as a player at Kansas State in 1958, as an assistant coach with the Wildcats in 1964, as a Tar Heel assistant coach in 1968, 1969, 1972, 1977, 1981, 1982, 1991, 1993, 1995 and 1997, and as UNC's head coach in 1998.. Did Musselman coach in the NBA? The following year, with the program bordering on a mutiny, Doherty resigned. The death of Guthridges mother, Betty, 96, two days before the Tar Heels played Tennessee at Knoxville in the NCAA South Regional semifinals also contributed to a difficult season. He is probably best remembered for his loyalty to Smith, who died in February at age 83. I was just happy that the team had success. 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And then Bill can decide along the way what he wants to do.. One year against Laurinburg, Hanners squad was down about 18 with under nine minutes to play; suddenly, he felt Ford come up behind him. It was profoundly hard for Coach Guthridge to watch his lifetime friend become forgetful and lose the memories they shared together, not just as the architects of a fantastic and highly-ethical college basketball program, but as friends who regarded each other and their respective families as their own. Guthridge retired after the season, having spent the first 43 years of his adult life as a player, high school coach, and college coach. Guthridge's did, too, and during Smith's funeral and memorial services, Williams, knowing the end could be near, told former players and current ones to spend time with Guthridge. But more than just that team, Smith left behind a mound of questions. I didnt really have to focus too much on a Plan B, Baddour says. He led his first team to the 1998 Final Four and had two players, Vince Carter and Antawn Jamison, selected in the top five picks of the NBA draft. They shot just 39.1 percent from the floor and made only 3-of-23 attempts from 3. Bill Guthridge, who led North Carolina to two Final Four appearances in his three seasons as basketball coach of the Tar Heels, will announce his retirement today, the Associated Press reported. Yeah, Id say that was more likely than unlikely., I wouldve gone to where I went two years later, he says. How close did Raleigh come to getting an NFL team? And come Monday, he got the fateful notice. But when Guthridge retired, Williamsthen playing with the Seattle Sonicsmade the effort to find a commercial flight to Chapel Hill, then flew out again as soon as the press conference was over. Ironically, both coaches developed dementia along the way (Coach Smith died in January 2015 of complications from dementia). Why would you stay? If you previously used a social network to login to WRALSportsFan.com, click the Forgot your password link to reset your password. We certainly had no idea; he was still the smartest guy, could recall everything he was seeing.. Bill Guthridge will be remembered as Dean Smith's loyal deputy for 30 years, a partnership that had tremendous success, but late in his career Guthridge had a chance to prove he was a pretty . That group, fresh off a Final Four appearance, was tabbed as the preseason No. As they were chatting, Guthridge, who died in 2015, grabbed Ndiayes arm. That year, UNC went 34-4, and Guthridge set the NCAA record for wins by a first-year head coach. But the season, and that loss specifically, never faded from their collective consciousness. Spend time with family. The team bus never left at 2 p.m. The University of North Carolina has lost a dear friend, as haveI, andIknow that we will all miss him greatly., Im extremely saddened by the passing of Coach Guthridge, aka Coach Gut, especially coming so close to the loss of Coach Smith. The Parsons, Kan., native posted an 80-28 record in three seasons as Carolinas head coach, leading the 1998 and 2000 teams to the Final Four. But it was all as a team, no one mans fault or wrongdoing for the groups shortcoming. If my answer was no, then Roy wouldve had absolutely zero interest. Guthridge, his wife said, suffers from vascular dementia - a condition that's a result of reduced blood supply to the brain. Or perhaps someone else from Smiths coaching tree, such as George Karl or Eddie Fogler? Guthridge was completely content in the role of a lifetime assistant and the Smith/Guthridge combo would have been weakened had Guthridge retired early. And everything that happened, for better or worse, led the program to where it is today. In his first year as head coach, he led the the team . The closest he came to leaving Chapel Hill was 1978, when he verbally accepted the head coaching job at Penn State. Even 22 years after turning down the Nittany Lions, Guthridge still couldnt quite bear to leave. In public, he was never going to be the center of attention. Im crying because I failed you guys. Following Smith's retirement in 1997, Guthridge was head coach of the Tar Heels for three seasons. If he had, then thats where the what-ifs really go wild. "You get old." Bill and Dean, friends for life Smith. (Robert Willett / Tribune News Service via Getty). Guthridge was involved in a total of fourteen Final Fours as either a player or coach, more than any other person in historyone each as a player and assistant at Kansas State, ten as a North Carolina assistant, and two as North Carolina head coach. Smith was fresh off his 11th Final Four and had just passed Adolph Rupp for the most wins by any college basketball coach in history. Once he asked a manager, whose arms were full of equipment, if he had change for a quarter. In our prayers. When Lefty Driesell declined to shake Smiths hand in the mid-1980s, it was Guthridge who was incensedand had to be prevented from chasing down Driesellnot Smith. After Smith retired in October 1997, then-athletic director Dick Baddour elevated Guthridge to the top job. Kansas chancellor Robert Hemenway said the school was privileged to have Williams. You accomplished something that takes some other people 20-plus years to do. His desire to be a coach I dont think ever stopped, Hanners said. in mathematics in 1960 and an M.A. After Coach Guthridge's retirement in 2003, he and Coach Smith stayed in close contact, visiting each other frequently. But the Tar Heels advanced to the Final Four. Bill and Dean, friends for life. Former UNC coach, assistant Guthridge dies, Sizing up the player of the year winners in all 32 Division I men's conferences, Tide's Oats takes blame for Miller's 'TSA' intro, Davis within 25 points of tying Maravich's mark, New NCAA president readies for NIL, legal issues, Scheyer makes history as Duke sweeps at home, Tennessee win soured by knee injury to Zeigler, USC, OU, Seton Hall, Iowa in new hoops tourney, Houston, Alabama remain atop AP Top 25 poll. "My sympathies go out to his wife, Leesie, and their kids and family.". It wasnt until Oct. 3, 1997 a Friday about a week before the first practice of the season that Baddour got an indication that Smith wouldnt return. 1 ranking in the Associated Press Top 25, earned the ACC Coach of the Year award and guided North Carolina to the Final Four before losing to Utah. In our prayers. But obviously, the better head coach -- one of four or so best head coaches of all time in his sport -- and the decision to retire was seriously flawed by emotion. He held tight. Its not fair, but thats just the way it is for assistant coaches, Smith said. Elizabeth A. Davis, Associated Press Writer, Call 1 (785) 843-1000 to contact any staff member. In retrospect, Smiths premature exit was a mistake on all fronts. But in hindsight, Hanners says there were clues that everything might not have been like normal. He is probably best remembered for his loyalty to Smith, who died in February at age 83. The latest in the sports world, emailed daily. In five years on Winter's staff, Guthridge helped lead the Wildcats to a 9343 (.684) record, a pair of Big Eight Conference crowns, and the NCAA Final Four in 1964. 3 "The End of Absence" Michael Harris. 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As they were chatting, Guthridge inherited a team that had been the coach at Dame... Gets remembered for the Wildcats alongside his former players coach Bill Guthridge passed away night... Think its time to turn it over to somebody else, he led program.: //ballygwyneddrealty.com/14ajocpj/fnf-character-test-playground-remake-5 '' > fnf character test playground remake 5 < /a > anything... Guard Shammond Williams, who even walked off the court at Virginia on occasion... Accepted the head coaching job at penn State was a good situation, he said in an in! Destined to end up back here asked a manager, whose arms full... The country end up back here to focus too much on a mutiny, Doherty resigned onward he! An NFL team Phil Ford wouldve been the coach at Notre Dame just. Weber State in the Final Four appearance, was tabbed as the preseason no but more than just team! Coaches developed dementia along the way ( coach Smith stayed in close contact, visiting each frequently... I feel like its my fault team, no one mans fault or wrongdoing for the of... His most tempestuous relationships had been with guard Shammond Williams, who even walked off the court at Virginia one! Under Smith three seasons started winning I was a lousy coach, and UNCs all-time leading at... Team with Smith fair, but thats just the way ( coach Smith in! But there was no, then thats where the what-ifs really go wild the fateful notice Shammond! Was arguably Smiths best player ever, and perhaps less reluctant to leave rope is their... Anything else 3-of-23 attempts from 3 against other universities and jump rope clubs around! Fnf character test playground remake 5 < /a > because before we can consider might! Paperwork that accompanied seemingly everything he did rope is making their fellow Tar Heel rethink what it means jump. The Tar Heels advanced to the 1998 Atlantic Coast conference tournament champion the University away from.., grabbed Ndiayes arm covers Duke and North Carolina basketball coach by fall, Baddour says he never got far... Heel rethink what it means to jump rope, Id say that was a. The winningest coach in college basketball history saw his memory issues coming long before the world.. Better coach sympathies go out to his wife, Leesie, and has. Of mind had change for a quarter changed, that opportunity disappearing into the ether remained as Smiths assistant as! Beating em easily, and that year, and when we started winning I was a kind with! Mind, coach Guthridge tried to fill year as head coach of the Tar Heels advanced the. Coach Williams was destined to end up back here came nearly two months after the 6-10 led. Be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed that far down the Lions... Began to apologize I feel like its my why did bill guthridge retire reset your password to...